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John Kilby Green - Family History

(UNDER CONSTRUCTION)

 

 

 

James Green

=

Sarah Day

 

(Sarah Halliday?)

=

25 Aug 1815

John Kilby Green

=

?? ??? 18??

Susannah Dimmock

 

John Green?

 

John Kilby Green (1)

 

 

Susannah Green?

 

Sarah Green

 

 

 

 

John Kilby Green (2)

 

 

 

 

George James Green

 

 

 

 

Clara Green

 

 

 

 

Ellen Green

 

 

BIRTH OF THE INVENTOR

 

John Kilby Green was baptised on 2nd May 1790 at Ayot St Peter in rural Hertfordshire, the son of James Green and his wife Sarah. 

His name was spelt with an “e” in Kilb(e)y, but this was the only time this spelling was used.

It is believed his birthday was 15th April 1790.

 

(Source Ayot St Peter Herts DP/11)

 

No other records have been found for James and Sarah Green, other than a possible marriage in Ayot St Peter in October 1785, between James Green and Sarah Day.

 

(Ayot St Peter, as engraved by JK Green)

 

ARRIVAL IN LONDON

 

In his interview with Henry Mayhew in 1850, William West stated that “a Prentice of the name of Green, who worked at Mr. Simkin's, an engraver in Denmark-court” had engraved for him. It is highly possible that Green was either apprenticed to West at some stage or worked for him. The fact that Green managed to produce the same works as West, but with an earlier date suggests that he had access to West’s drawings and engravings. When Green later claimed to be the “Original Inventor” he declared that he had established his business in 1808. Was this when he was with Mr Simkin’s or was this when he may have been with West. An apprenticeship usually lasted for 6 years and it would have been highly likely that Green commenced his apprenticeship at the age of 13 or 14, so if he really started his own business in 1808 he would only have been 18 and still in his apprenticeship period. I suspect that Green’s claim to have started in 1808 was a slight exaggeration and he more likely commenced business nearer 1810 or even 1811. Green’s first known works appear with an imprint date of 1811.

 

Green continued printing in London until 1814, with his last product “Tiger Horde”, but soon afterwards he disappeared. Until very recently it had only been conjecture as to what happened in the “missing” years, but it now appears highly likely that Green joined the army and at some point was stationed near Rutland.

 

1st MARRIAGE

 

On the 25th August 1815 there was an entry for a marriage between John Kilby Green and Sarah Halliday at Oakham in Rutland. The coincidence is too much to be considered as any other John Kilby Green. The signature, although no comparison exists, is that of an educated man with a degree of flamboyance that stands out in the letter “K” (see above). Just the sort of person who could be an engraver.

 

(Source Oakham DE2694/12)

 

Follow this with the birth a possible son, John Green, baptised at the same church and described as the son of John Green (a soldier) & wife Sarah. The fact that this John Green was a soldier adds credence to the joining the army theory.

 

(Source Oakham DE2694/4)

 

After 1818 the trail for John Kilby Green runs cold. Nothing more is know of him until his re-appearance at 3 George Street in Walworth in 1832. (The search continues…)

 

What happened to wife Sarah and his son John is not known? Perhaps JK Green returned from overseas postings to find that his wife had possibly died and his son flown the nest. Perhaps he didn’t return to them at all and left them ignorant of his fate.

 

2nd MARRIAGE

 

In 1832 we find John Kilby Green back in London and printing again. He was living at 3 George Street in Walworth, with his young bride Susannah Green, nee Dimmock, this assumes that he in fact married her. So far no marriage has been located. From the 1841 Census, Susannah was born outside of Surrey and the 1851 Census shown her to be born in Ipswich in Essex.

 

THE CHILDREN OF THE INVENTOR

 

Newington, Walworth & Lambeth

On 13 May 1835 John Kilvy Green and Sarah Green were baptised at St Mary, Newington, Southwark. Their birth dates were given as 10th March 1835 & 19th October 1833 respectively. The parents were listed as John Kilvy & Susanna Green.

 (Source – IGI Batch C055632)

On 30th June 1837 John Kilby Green was baptised at St Peter, Walworth, Southwark. His birth date was given as 22nd September 1836. The parents were listed as John Kilby & Susanna Green. Father’s occupation was “Engraver”. Their abode was given as Salisbury Place.

(Source - St Peter, Walworth Baptisms - LMA X014/119A-Page 93)

(This would indicate that the first John Kilvy Green should have died. As yet no burial has been found.)

 

 

1841 Census

1841 Census Extract HO107-1061-6 Folio 55

Lambeth Square, St Mary, Lambeth, Surrey

Names

Age

Occupation

Born in Surrey

John Green

50

Engraver

No

John Green

4

 

Yes

George Green

2

 

Yes

Susannah Green

25

 

No

Susannah Green

11

 

No

Sarah Green

7

 

Yes

 

 

This shows that there is a Susannah Green aged 11, therefore born about 1830. Because JK Green’s wife Susannah Green was only 25 in 1841 and even allowing for the rounding which took place in the 1841 Census (down to the nearest 5 years over the age of 15) Susannah must have been younger than 30. It is possible that this Susannah was their first child or maybe she was the child from his first marriage. Until we find the marriage of JK Green and Susannah we can’t be sure.

 

On 10th April 1845 Clara Green was born at 16 Park Place, East Street, Walworth.

Father = John Kilby Green – Printer

Mother = Susannah Green formerly Dimmock

Informant was John Kilby Green – Father – 16 Park Place, East Street, Walworth

(Source Birth Certificate)

 

On 15th November 1848 Ellen Green was baptised at St Peter, Walworth

Date of birth was given as 17th September 1848

Abode given as Thurlow Place

Father = John Kilby Green – Engraver

Mother = Susannah

(Source - St Peter, Walworth Baptisms - LMA X087/179-Page 194)

 

 

1851 Census

1851 Census Extract HO107-1567 Folio 619 Page 12

9 Thurlow Place, Walworth, Surrey

Names

RtoH

Age

Occupation

Place of Birth

John Kilbey Green

Head

61

Historical Engraver

Ayot-St-Peter, Hertfordshire

Susanna Green

Wife

40

 

Ipswich, Suffolk

Sarah Green

Daur

12

Scholar at home

Walworth

John Green

Son

10

Scholar at home

Walworth

George Green

Son

8

Scholar at home

Walworth

Clara Green

Daur

4

 

Walworth

Ellen Green

Daur

2

 

Walworth

(All the children seem to have lost a few years, as their ages shown do not tally with dates of birth or the 1841 census. It is suspected that either this is a transcription error or JK Green was a little unclear when filling in the Census Return.)

 

 

Death

On 21st August 1857 Susannah Green died aged 45, of 9 Thurlow Place.

Her occupation was given as “Wife of John Green – Copper Plate Engraver”

The Cause of death was given as Bronchitis (3 months).

Informant to the Death was  “John Green, present at the death of 8 Thurlow Place, Walworth”

(It appears odd that the address given by John Green was 8 Thurlow Place, perhaps this was John K Green junior?)

(Source – Susannah Green - Death Certificate)

 

She was buried at St Mary, Newington, on 26th August 1857.

(Source - St Mary, Newington Burials - LMA X099/064-Page 64-Entry No.509)

 

On 29th February 1860 John Kilby Green died at 29 Thurlow Place, Walworth Common. He was 70 years old.

Cause of death was Natural Paralysis & General Decay

There was a coroner’s inquest (held on 6th March 1860), which was surprising for such an ordinary death of a 70 year old.

(Source – John Kilby Green - Death Certificate)

  

Known addresses for JK Green

 

The children of John Kilby Green

John Green                               baptised 1818 (died before 1833?)

Susannah Green                        born about 1830

John Kilvy Green                   born 1833 (died before 1835?)

Sarah Green                           born 1835

John Kilby Green                   born 22nd September 1836

George James Green            born about 1838

Clara Green                           born 16th April 1846

Ellen Green                            born 17th September 1848

 

JK Green – Descendent Tree

 

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