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John Kilby Green - Family History

	James Green	=	Sarah Day
Sarah Halliday?	Marriage = Oakham in Rutland 25 Aug 1815	John Kilby Green 1790-1860	Marriage = Unknown ?? ??? 18??	Susannah Dimmock 1812?-1857
	John Green? 1818-		Susannah Green? 1830?-
			John Green 1832-1832
			John Kilby Green (1) 1833-1833
			Sarah Green 1835-
			John Kilby Green (2) 1837-1891
			George James Green 1838-1910
			William Henry Green 1842-1846
			Clara Green 1845-
			Ellen Green 1848-
			Phoebe Green 1851-

BIRTH OF THE INVENTOR

John Kilby Green was baptised on 2^nd May 1790 at Ayot St Peter in rural Hertfordshire, the son of James Green and his wife Sarah.

His name was spelt with an “e” in Kilb(e)y, but this was the only time this spelling was used.

It is believed his birthday was 15^th April 1790.

(Source Ayot St Peter Herts DP/11)

No other records have been found for James and Sarah Green, other than a possible marriage in Ayot St Peter in October 1785, between James Green and Sarah Day.

(Ayot St Peter, as engraved by JK Green)

ARRIVAL IN LONDON

In his interview with Henry Mayhew in 1850, William West stated that “a Prentice of the name of Green, who worked at Mr. Simkin's, an engraver in Denmark-court” had engraved for him. It is highly possible that Green was either apprenticed to West at some stage or worked for him. The fact that Green managed to produce the same works as West, but with an earlier date suggests that he had access to West’s drawings and engravings. When Green later claimed to be the “Original Inventor” he declared that he had established his business in 1808. Was this when he was with Mr Simkin’s or was this when he may have been with West. An apprenticeship usually lasted for 6 years and it would have been highly likely that Green commenced his apprenticeship at the age of 13 or 14, so if he really started his own business in 1808 he would only have been 18 and still in his apprenticeship period. I suspect that Green’s claim to have started in 1808 was a slight exaggeration and he more likely commenced business nearer 1810 or even 1811. Green’s first known works appear with an imprint date of 1811.

Green continued printing in London until 1814, with his last production “Tiger Horde”, which he produced in collaboration with Mr Slee, but soon afterwards JK Green disappeared. He did not return to the printing trade until 1832, when works started to appear again with the imprint of JK Green. Until very recently it had only been conjecture as to what happened in the “missing” years, but it now appears highly likely that Green joined the army and at some point was stationed near Rutland.

1^st MARRIAGE

On the 25^th August 1815 there was an entry for a marriage between John Kilby Green and Sarah Halliday at Oakham in Rutland. The coincidence is too much to be considered as any other John Kilby Green. The signature, although no comparison exists, is that of an educated man with a degree of flamboyance that stands out in the letter “K” (see above). Just the sort of person who could have been an engraver.

(Source Oakham DE2694/12)

Follow this with the birth a possible son, John Green, baptised at the same church and described as the son of John Green (a soldier) & wife Sarah.

The fact that this John Green was a soldier adds credence to the joining the army theory.

(Source Oakham DE2694/4)

After 1818 the trail for John Kilby Green runs cold. Nothing more is know of him until his re-appearance at 3 George Street in Walworth in 1832. (The search continues…)

What happened to wife Sarah and their son John is not known? Perhaps JK Green returned from overseas posting to find that his wife had possibly died and his son flown the nest. Perhaps he didn’t return to them at all and left them ignorant of his own fate.

2^nd MARRIAGE

In 1832 we find John Kilby Green back in London and printing again. He was living at 3 George Street in Walworth, with his young bride Susannah Green, nee Dimmock, this assumes that he in fact married her. So far no marriage has been located. From the 1841 Census, Susannah was born outside of Surrey and the 1851 Census shown her to be born in Ipswich in Suffolk.

THE CHILDREN OF THE INVENTOR

From his first marriage it is believed there may have been just the one child, John. There is a Susannah Green that appears on the 1841 Census living with JK Green, but at the age of 11, she seemed that she was too old to be the daughter of the union between JK Green and Susannah Dimmock. However, his second marriage was far more productive with no less than ten children arriving on the scene. It would appear from the 1841 Census that Susannah Green (nee Dimmock) was only 25 years old. However I believe she was much nearer to being 29 years old, especially when we later learned that she was probably born 1812 being 45 when she died in 1857. This means that she would have been just 18 when the younger Susannah was born. As yet no baptism record has been has been found for Susannah. A baptismal record has been found for John Green in 1832 born to JK Green and Susannah his wife, so making it far more likely.

Camberwell, Newington, Walworth & Lambeth

Parish Record
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	Camberwell	John Green	25^th March 1832	John Kilby & Susannah Green	Engraver	Camberwell

Unfortunately this John Green junior died 17 months later. The burial records show the following entry:-.

Parish Record (Page 56 No. 443)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Address	Age
Burial	St Mary, Newington	John Green	30^th June 1833	George Street	17 Months

Parish Record (Page 32 No.s 252 & 253)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	Sarah Green	13^th May 1835 (Born 19^th October 1833)	John Kilvy & Susanna Green	Engraver	George Street (Brandon Street)
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	John Kilvy Green	13^th May 1835 (Born 10th March 1835)	John Kilvy & Susanna Green	Engraver	George Street (Brandon Street)

Unfortunately this second John Kilby Green junior also died just four months later.

Parish Record (Page 56 No. 443 – same reference as John Green who died in 1833)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Address	Age
Burial	St Mary, Newington	John Kilby Green	24^th July 1835	Bedford Street	4 Months 11 Days

Bedford Street must have been a short term residence as it was never listed on any of JK Green’s imprints.

It was common practice of the time, to name the next child after an earlier child that had died, so it came as no surprise to find a third John Kilby Green born to JK Green and his wife Susannah.

Parish Record (Page 93 No. 738)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	John Kilby Green	30^th June 1837 (Born 22^nd September 1836)	John Kilby & Susanna Green	Engraver	Salisbury Place

1841 Census

1841 Census Extract HO107-1061-6 Folio 55

Lambeth Square, St Mary, Lambeth, Surrey

Names	Age	Occupation	Born in Surrey
John Green	50	Engraver	No
John Green	4		Yes
George Green	2		Yes
Susannah Green	25		No
Susannah Green	11		No
Sarah Green	7		Yes

This shows that there is a Susannah Green aged 11, therefore born about 1830. Because JK Green’s wife Susannah Green was only 25 in 1841 and even allowing for the rounding which took place in the 1841 Census (down to the nearest 5 years over the age of 15) Susannah must have been younger than 30. It is possible that this Susannah was their first child or maybe she was the child from his first marriage. Until we find the marriage of JK Green and Susannah we can’t be sure.

Parish Record (Page 174 No.s 1385, 1386 & 1387)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	George James Green	12^th October 1845 (Born 21^st October 1838)	John Kilby & Susanna Green	Printer	Park Place, East Street
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	William Henry Green	12^th October 1845 (Born 16^th August 1842)	John Kilby & Susanna Green	Printer	Park Place, East Street
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	Clara Green	12^th October 1845 (Born 10^th April 1845)	John Kilby & Susanna Green	Printer	Park Place, East Street

GRO Index Entry
Type	Quarter/Year	Name	Age	District	Ref
Birth	Sept 1842	William Henry Green	N/A	Lambeth	4 293
Death	Sept 1846	William Henry Green	N/A	Lambeth	4 247

Parish Record (Page 88 No. 698)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Address	Age
Burial	St Mary, Newington	William Kilby Green	5^th August 1846	Thurlow Place, Walworth Common	4 Years

William Henry Green, seems to have had a posthumous name change to William Kilby Green.

On 10^th April 1845 Clara Green was born at 16 Park Place, East Street, Walworth.

Father = John Kilby Green – Printer

Mother = Susannah Green formerly Dimmock

Informant was John Kilby Green – Father – 16 Park Place, East Street, Walworth

(Source Birth Certificate)

Parish Record (Page 194)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	Ellen Green	15^th November 1848 (Born 17th September 1848)	John Kilby & Susannah Green	Engraver	Thurlow Place

1851 Census

1851 Census Extract HO107-1567 Folio 619 Page 12

9 Thurlow Place, Walworth, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
John Kilbey Green	Head	61	Historical Engraver	Ayot-St-Peter, Hertfordshire
Susanna Green	Wife	40		Ipswich, Suffolk
Sarah Green	Daur	12	Scholar at home	Walworth
John Green	Son	10	Scholar at home	Walworth
George Green	Son	8	Scholar at home	Walworth
Clara Green	Daur	4		Walworth
Ellen Green	Daur	2		Walworth

(All the children seem to have lost a few years, as their ages shown do not tally with dates of birth or the 1841 census. It is suspected that either this is a transcription error or more likely, JK Green was a little unclear when filling in the Census Return.)

Parish Record (Page 164 No. 1309)
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	St Mary, Newington	Phoebe Green	25^th December 1851 (Born 18^th November 1851)	John Kilby & Susannah Green	Printer	Thurlow Place

John Kilby Green junior appears to have joined the Navy in August 1854 for a ten year stint aboard HMS Waterloo. This explains why I have so far failed to find him on the 1861 Census.

Death

Parish Record (Page 64-Entry No.509)
Type	Church	Name	Address	Date	Age
Burial	St Mary, Newington	Susannah Green	Thurlow Place	26^th August 1857	45

On 21^st August 1857 Susannah Green died aged 45, of 9 Thurlow Place.

Her occupation was given as “Wife of John Green – Copper Plate Engraver”

The Cause of death was given as Bronchitis (3 months).

Informant to the Death was “John Green, present at the death of 8 Thurlow Place, Walworth”

(It appears odd that the address given by John Green was 8 Thurlow Place?)

(Source – Susannah Green - Death Certificate)

On 29^th February 1860 John Kilby Green died at 29 Thurlow Place, Walworth Common. He was 70 years old.

Cause of death was Natural Paralysis & General Decay

There was a coroner’s inquest (held on 6^th March 1860), which was surprising for such an ordinary death of a 70 year old.

(Source – John Kilby Green - Death Certificate)

John Kilby Green - Family History

Life after JK Green

1861 Census

1861 Census Extract RG9-337 Folio 124 Page 42

6 Chatham Place, Newington, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
George James Green	Head	22	Printer Copperplate	Surrey, Southwark

The Banns were published to announce the marriage of George James Green and Jessie Emma Reynolds on 19^th January 1862, however no marriage took place immediately afterwards.

Why no marriage took place at this time is not known, but it may have had something to do with the birth or expected birth of George James Green (junior), which took place around 1862 to 1863.

1871 Census

1871 Census Extract RG10-613 Folio ? Page 24

29 Chatham Street, St Mary, Newington, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
George J Green	Head	31	Printer Co.Plate	Surrey, Newington
Jessie E Green	Wife	30		Middlesex, St Clement
George J Green	Son	8	Scholar	Surrey, Newington
Alfred E J Green	Son	4	Scholar	Surrey, Newington
Jessie C Green	Dau	14m		Surrey, Newington

The Banns were published to announce the marriage of George James Green and Jessie Emma Reynolds on 14^th, 21^st & 28^th May 1871, this time the marriage did go ahead.

Marriage

Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of St Mary, Lambeth in the County of Surrey
Date	Names	Age	Condition	Occupation	Abode	Father	Father’s Occupation
14^th July	George James Green	Full Age	Bachelor	Printer	East Street	John Kilby Green (dec’d)	Engraver
1871	Jessie Emma Reynolds	Full Age	Spinster		East Street	Abraham Ives Reynolds (dec’d)	Printer

(Source – Marriage Certificate)

Charles Frederick Green’s birth certificate. He was born on 7th January 1881 at 100 Rodney Road, Trinity Newington in the County of Surrey. His father was George James Green, a commercial traveller and Jessie was shown as Jessie Emma Green, formerly Reynolds.

1881 Census

Extract of 1881 Census Return (RG11-0550 Folio No.59)

100 Rodney Road, St Mary, Newington, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
George James Green	Head	42	Newsagent	Newington
Jessie E Green	Wife	40		Strand, Middlesex
George J Green	Son	18	Rivetter, Boiler Maker	Newington
Alfred E J Green	Son	14	Printer’s Machine Boy	Newington
Jessie C Green	Dau	12	Scholar	Newington
James Green	Son	9	Scholar	Newington
William Green	Son	7	Scholar	Newington
Henry Green	Son	5	Scholar	Newington
John K Green	Son	3		Newington
Charles Green	Son	3m		Newington

1891 Census

Extract of 1891 Census Return (RG12-0363 Page No.12)

98 Rodney Road, St Mary, Newington, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
George James Green	Head	58	Newsagent	Walworth
Jessie E Green	Wife	50		St Clement Danes
Alfred E J Green	Son	24	Printer’s Machine Minder	Walworth
James R Green	Son	23	Printer’s Machine Minder	Walworth
Jessie C Green	Dau	20	Boot Fitter	Walworth
William Green	Son	16	Printer Layer On	Walworth
Henry Green	Son	14	Printer Layer On	Walworth
John K Green	Son	13	Printer Reader	Walworth
Charles Green	Son	10	Scholar	Walworth

1901 Census

Extract of 1901 Census Return (RG13-0381 Folio 61 Page No.11)

98 & 100 Rodney Road, St Mary, Newington, Surrey

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
George J Green	Head	62	Newsagent	London, Newington
Jessie E Green	Wife	60		London, Strand
James R Green	Son	28	Factory Machine Minder	London, Newington
John K Green	Son	23	Printer Compositor	London, Newington
Charles F Green	Son	20	Factory Machine Monder	London, Newington

Death

George James Green died on 8^th November 1910

(Source – Death Certificate)

JOHN KILBY GREEN (junior)

In August 1854, JK Green (junior) joined the Navy aboard HMS Waterloo on a minimum of ten years service.

No record found for 1861 Census.

GRO Index Entry
Type	Quarter/Year	Name	Age	District	Ref
Marriage	March 1811	John Kilby Green = Louisa Elizabeth Feast	N/A	Holborn	1b 754

Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of City Road Chapel, Holborn in the County of London
Date	Names	Age	Condition	Occupation	Abode	Father	Father’s Occupation
24^th January	John Kilby Green		Bachelor	Printer		John Kilby Green (dec’d)	Engraver
1871	Louisa Elizabeth Feast		Spinster

1871 Census

1871 Census Extract RG10-0405 Folio 4 Page 2

4 New Mint Buildings, St Lukes, Middlesex

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
John K Green	Head	29	Shopman	Lock Field, Walworth
Louisa Green	Wife	27		Tower St, City

1881 Census

1881 Census Extract RG11-0322 Folio 38 Page 21

4 Castle Street, Middlesex

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
John Green	Head	40	Whitewasher	None given
Louise Green	Wife	32		None given
John Green	Son	9		None given
Matilda Green	Son	6		None given
George Green	Son	4		None given
Alfred Green	Son	2		None given

Parish Record
Type	Church	Name	Date	Parents	Father’s Occupation	Address
Baptism	Holy Trinity, Lincoln Inn Fields	Susannah Green	28^th July 1889 (Born 12^th July 1889	John Kilby & Louisa Green	Toy Maker	19 Shelton Street

GRO Index Entry
Type	Quarter/Year	Name	Age	District	Ref
Death	March 1891	John Kilbey Green	49	Strand	1b 481

1891 Census

1891 Census Extract RG12-0214 Folio ?? Page 36

8 Russell Court, St Martins in the Field, Middlesex

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
Louise E Green	Wife	48	Charwoman	Cambridgeshire
John K Green	Son	19	Hawker	London, St Luke
George A Green	Son	14	Dipper	London, St Luke
Mary Green	Dau	7		London, St Luke
Susanna Green	Dau	1		London, St Luke

CLARA GREEN

No record found for 1861 Census.

1871 Census

1871 Census Extract RG10-0375 Folio ?? Page 51

Charlotte Buildings, Holborn, Middlesex

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
James Steer	Head	27	Bricklayer’s Labourer (unemployed)	Guildford, Surrey
Clara Steer	Wife	25	Toy Maker	Walworth, Surrey

(Note Clara’s occupation of “Toy Maker”)

GRO Index Entry
Type	Quarter/Year	Name	Age	District	Ref
Marriage	Dec 1871	Clara Green = James Steer	N/A	Holborn	1b 999

Although shown as married on the 1871 Census, they didn’t actually marry until the final quarter of 1871. This appears to be the norm around this time, as I have found more than 10 occurrences of such practices.

1881 Census

1881 Census Extract RG11-0193 Folio 37 Page 13

250 Grays Inn Road, London, Middlesex

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
James Steer	Head	39	General Labourer	Guildford, Surrey
Clara Steer	Wife	35	Toy Maker	Walworth, Surrey
Albert J Steer	Son	4	Scholar	Clerkenwell, Surrey

(Note Clara’s occupation of “Toy Maker”)

1891 Census

1891 Census Extract RG12-0626 Folio 97 Page 53

25 Sultan Street, Beckenham, Kent

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
James Steer	Head	49	Labourer	Guildford, Surrey
Clara Steer	Wife	45	Laundress (wash)	Walworth, Surrey
Albert J Steer	Son	14		Clerkenwell, Surrey
Annie E Steer	Dau	6		Enfield, Middlesex

(Note Clara’s occupation of “Laundress”, apparently Toy Making was no longer lucrative.)

1901 Census

1901 Census Extract RG13-0547 Folio 20 Page 32

36 Buglefield, Lee, London

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
Albert Steed	Head	23	Carman	Clerkenwell, Surrey
Fanny Steed	Wife	23		Five ???quin, Kent
James Steed	Father	59	Carpenter	Guildford, Surrey
Clara Steed	Mother	55		Walworth, Surrey
Annie E Steer	Sister	16	Tag Maker	Enfield, Middlesex

(Note the change of spelling to “Steed”. This may just be a one off on the 1901 Census (original) or they may have changed their name to Steed rather than Steer.)

ELLEN GREEN

No record found for 1861 Census.

1871 Census

1871 Census Extract RG10-0677 Folio 90 Page 4

33 Crammer Road, Lambeth

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
Benjamin J Wright	Head	37	Corn Dealer	London, Essex?
Fanny M Wright	Wife	32		Brixton, Surrey
Rawleigh Wright	Son	11	Scholar	Langley, Wiltshire
Sidney Wright	Son	9	Scholar	Brixton, Surrey
Albert J Wright	Son	3	Scholar	Brixton, Surrey
Ellen Green	Serv	22	General Servant	Walworth, Surrey

(This is only a possibility, no more evidence to corroborate.)

1881 Census

1881 Census Extract RG11-1007 Folio 33 Page 5

Crabble Street Pr House, River, Kent

Names	RtoH	Age	Occupation	Place of Birth
Willshere Mannering	Head	40	Miller	Dover, Kent
May Day Mammering	Sister	34	Miller’s Sister	Dover, Kent
Ellen Green	Serv	22	Cook Domestic Servant	Walworth, Surrey
Ann Kimber	Serv	24	Housemaid	Sheerness, Kent

(This is only a possibility, no more evidence to corroborate.)

No further records have been found

 End

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